Hold on MOXY:
I know this sounds strange, but I am NOT totally convinced that they doctored anything, YET. I want THEM to tell me directly or deny it. Then I want to know why and who keeps funding the expeditions.
Utopian Reformist
JoinedPosts by Utopian Reformist
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Recent JW EXPEDITIONS TO MOUNT ARARAT
by Utopian Reformist indespite the apparent redundancy, i would like to introduce the subject from a different perspective.
around 1996 i came in contact with a jw pioneer named "francesco annunziata" from naples, italy.. francesco was involved with a man (inactive jw) named angelo palego, with whom he has made several expeditions to mt.
ararat searching the famous ahora gorge for remnants of the ark.. the majority of the more technical and geological/scientific information is in italian, but there is enough information posted in english to merit attention.. i posted this subject in an effort to move away from discussing the flood, size of the flood and/or location of the flood.
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Recent JW EXPEDITIONS TO MOUNT ARARAT
by Utopian Reformist indespite the apparent redundancy, i would like to introduce the subject from a different perspective.
around 1996 i came in contact with a jw pioneer named "francesco annunziata" from naples, italy.. francesco was involved with a man (inactive jw) named angelo palego, with whom he has made several expeditions to mt.
ararat searching the famous ahora gorge for remnants of the ark.. the majority of the more technical and geological/scientific information is in italian, but there is enough information posted in english to merit attention.. i posted this subject in an effort to move away from discussing the flood, size of the flood and/or location of the flood.
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Utopian Reformist
MAD:
All I am trying to accomplish is to get an answer directly from the source. How does anyone which photo is doctored? If brushing can add things to a photo, then it can remove them as well? Is that reasonable enough for you?
Now, I will post their answer when I get it and we will see what THEY have to say. If they fudged the pictures and admit, well then the question is who posted the altered photo and why? If they claim not to have altered anything, or someone else altered the photo to "frame" them, then that is another story altogether. Whatever the case, I am looking for answers. Can you help? Do you have any valuable input, other than attacks and accusations?
At least I made you part of a song today.
Now, back to the courts thing...Don't even try it. You were provided everything necessary to look that stuff up, minus my own password into the system. Simon can verify whether or not I am from the federal courts by checking his log files and he can trace which gateway I post from, moron. Now, go to the federal courthouse in your area and follow the instructions, it's free and you can see whether or not I am lying, other than your cheap bravado.
You're scared to look. You want to me post, so you can call and turn me in, right? Who do I look like, Fred Hall, NYT?
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Recent JW EXPEDITIONS TO MOUNT ARARAT
by Utopian Reformist indespite the apparent redundancy, i would like to introduce the subject from a different perspective.
around 1996 i came in contact with a jw pioneer named "francesco annunziata" from naples, italy.. francesco was involved with a man (inactive jw) named angelo palego, with whom he has made several expeditions to mt.
ararat searching the famous ahora gorge for remnants of the ark.. the majority of the more technical and geological/scientific information is in italian, but there is enough information posted in english to merit attention.. i posted this subject in an effort to move away from discussing the flood, size of the flood and/or location of the flood.
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Utopian Reformist
Hey MOX:
Like I started off saying, it had been a couple of years since I was regularly e-mailing these guys. But, what I did is re-open the lines of communication specifically for that purpose.
I need to know for sure whether or not they doctored the pictures. I responded with that very same question and will post their answer.
If they deny it, and it can be proven then all I can do is pity them both. If the pictures are real, and they have real proof, well, it doesn't really change much, other than prove an ark was built to survive some type of water disaster. But, it would be nice to know one way or the other.
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Hi There Julie!
by IslandWoman ini repeat, you have not lived as a jw.
you have not raised your child as one, you have not had to sign a virtual death warrant for your child by refusing blood!!
you have not had to die as many of us have had to die.. you have not walked as we have walked!!!.
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Utopian Reformist
Just as active JW's DO NOT HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE HOLD on spirituality, truth and brotherhood, NEITHER DO EX-JW's have an exclusive hold on PAIN & SUFFERING.
The special nuances, details, variables and conditions that separate life as a JW from life as a Mormon, or Moonie, or Scientologist are only "cause-and-effect" details that became the catalysts for the actual pain and suffering we endured.
The pain and suffering is the point, the main focus and the priority, not the unique differences that separate us. We can recount the details and develop community together and support one another, but to EXCLUDE, MINIMIZE, IGNORE, TRIVIALIZE, CLASSIFY, REJECT, DISMISS, anyone else's attempts to "join" and "support" our efforts is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!
It wreaks of the elitist, pompous, arrogant, self-righteous, cliquish behavior we abhorred inside the WTBS. Who "owns" the rights to pain and suffering? Tell me who? Is it the loudest and smartest or is it the kindest and most humble? Who decides? Who has the authority?
LET PEOPLE LIVE and GET OVER YOURSELVES!
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How can we cause the most damage to the WT
by Jim Dee infollowing my note of jan 30 which detailed the way the society has been damaged during 2001 - .
un involvement rocks the society.
leaks from the elders school.
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Utopian Reformist
One very important lesson I learned after discovering the real truth is that getting together with humans to accomplish things if difficult, not impossible, just difficult.
I agree that the idea of everyone here putting together one solitary combined massive campaign at the same time would have a definite impact, but what, how, who, when, where are the problems to be solved first.
What should everyone do, how should we do it, when, where, etc... I think there are too many strong willed, empowered people here to find the one event/action we can all agree upon and then launch!
I hope it happens. I would certainly cooperate.
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BREASTFEEDING IS EATING BLOOD!
by metatron intell every witness sister!
warn every pregnant publisher!.
don't breastfeed your kids!
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Utopian Reformist
Could there be anymore evidence (sarcastically) against the WTBS at this point?
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Who Draws The Line and Why?
by hillary_step ini wish to present three situations that are true to life and open up a discussion on these different scenarios and how would would personally act toward them.. 1) a 75 year old person has been a jw for the past 40 years.
most of their friends are jws.
they look forward to the fellowship at the meetings and though the congregation is far from perfect, they are pleased with the fact that they have a purpose in life.
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Utopian Reformist
Hilary Step:
You chose three plausible situations that reflect reality and the demographic range of individual backgrounds and personal circumstances inside the organization today.
I think everyone can relate to all three scenarios and may have had contact/association on a personal level with at least one of them.
In the case of the 75 year old man, if he were a neighbor or friend, without regular association from blood relatives, and his health was in jeopardy, then in an emergency situation, I would attempt to intervene in the most peaceful possible manner, and in small doses. If I met with resistance, I would just acquiesce. Peace of mind can be powerful and why destroy his support mechanism without cooperation?
In the case of the 39 year old disabled man, I would wait until he displayed signs of disappointment, burn-out, frustration, sadness and began decreasing his activities. I would provide the same level of involvement as the local JW,s only without resorting to making any demands at all, and hope he would reciprocate with participation in learning the truth about the truth.
In the case of the former prostitute, who now has a wonderful family, I don't think I would offer any information unless it was requested. Once a person is abandoned or alone in this world, and suffers for years, it is difficult to destabilize that person's only life-support system, once they find it. It would take years and turn into a very long wait.
The world often says "people have to crash and burn to learn". Sometimes, it's true. While certain people may have lived under terrible circumstances, then becoming JW's SEEMS to have improved their lot in life, the only real change is that OTHER HUMANS finally took notice, showed concern, gave love and lifted their hands.
Human interest stories with "fairy-tale" endings occur all over the planet in different organizations. It proves that humans can support one another out of tragic situations. The JW theology may provide an impetus, stimulated by fear and guilt, but in the end, it is the individual him/her self that makes the internal decision to take personal responsibility and make a change.
Y
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Recent JW EXPEDITIONS TO MOUNT ARARAT
by Utopian Reformist indespite the apparent redundancy, i would like to introduce the subject from a different perspective.
around 1996 i came in contact with a jw pioneer named "francesco annunziata" from naples, italy.. francesco was involved with a man (inactive jw) named angelo palego, with whom he has made several expeditions to mt.
ararat searching the famous ahora gorge for remnants of the ark.. the majority of the more technical and geological/scientific information is in italian, but there is enough information posted in english to merit attention.. i posted this subject in an effort to move away from discussing the flood, size of the flood and/or location of the flood.
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Utopian Reformist
Here is "my" translation of the response from Angelo Palego and Francesco Annunziata;
Caro fratello Mario, (Dear Brother)
E un piacere confermarti che stiamo bene.
(It's a pleasure to confirm we are well)Siamo sempre contenti di poter salutare fratelli sparsi per il mondo e di constatare come la nostra sia una reale fratellanza senza confini. (We are always happy greeting brothers from around the world and coexisitng in a real brotherhood without borders)
Come dici tu, ci sono molti siti che parlano delle nostre ricerche e
spedizioni relative all'arca di Noe' comunque se vuoi sapere realmente come stanno le cose devi semplicemente consultare il nostro sito ufficiale: http://www.noahsark.it(Like you said, there are many sites that talk about our research and expeditions concerning Noah's Ark, however, if you really want to know how things "are", simply visit our official site)Molti cosiddetti esperti mettono in dubbio i nostri risultati, ma come potrai leggere direttamente dal sito, ce ne sono molti altri che li confermano; ad esempio l'Universita di Torino o l'Accademia di Yerevan, ecc.. (Many so-called experts doubt our results, but as you can see from our site there are many others who will confirm them, for example the University of Turin and Academy of Yerevan, etc)
Su alcuni siti potrai leggere affermazioni che tendono a farci apparire come "falsificatori di notizie"; ho gia provveduto a contattare alcuni di essi e mostrare le nostre ragioni e prove. Qualche sito ha rettificato, altri non mi hanno neanche risposto. Ma non ci preoccupiamo di loro. (At many sites, you can read "testimony" that tends to make us appear like we post "fake results"; I already made contact with several to offer my proof and evidence. A few responded and rescinded, while others did not respond at all. But, we don't worry about them.)
Siamo consapevoli che se qualcuno vuole veramente sapere come stanno le cose, ce lo chiederanno personalmente. Cosi sentiti libero di formularci qualsiasi domanda e stai certo che otterrai tutte le risposte. (We realize that if anyone really wants to know the truth, they will contact us directly. Therefore, feel free to pose any questions, and rest assured that you will get your answers.)
Nel frattempo ti comunico in anteprima che ci sono buone probabilita di ottenere tutti i permessi governativi che ci permetteranno fra non molto di intraprendere una spedizione in loco per cercare di estrarre dai ghiacci quel che rimane dell'arca. Ti terremmo sicuramente informato in merito a qualsiasi novita. Se me lo permetti inserisco il tuo indirizzo nella nostra mailing-list. (In the meantime, I will give you advance notice that there's a good chance in getting government permission for another expedition to extract the remains of the Ark from the ice. We will certainly keep you posted on any news. If you don't mind I will add your name to the mailing list.)
Possa Geova benedire te e la tua famiglia.
Tuoi compagni nell'opera di predicazione mondiale del veniente Regno di Dio, fraternamente ti salutiamo.
Francesco e Angelo(May Jehovah blees you and your family. Your fellow workers in the worldwide preaching work of the coming Kingdom of God, with brotherly love, Francesco and Angelo)
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Recent JW EXPEDITIONS TO MOUNT ARARAT
by Utopian Reformist indespite the apparent redundancy, i would like to introduce the subject from a different perspective.
around 1996 i came in contact with a jw pioneer named "francesco annunziata" from naples, italy.. francesco was involved with a man (inactive jw) named angelo palego, with whom he has made several expeditions to mt.
ararat searching the famous ahora gorge for remnants of the ark.. the majority of the more technical and geological/scientific information is in italian, but there is enough information posted in english to merit attention.. i posted this subject in an effort to move away from discussing the flood, size of the flood and/or location of the flood.
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Utopian Reformist
Alan:
If you need a copy of the original e-mail from Angelo Palego, I will send/forward a copy to you so you can verify their answer against what I posted, as an independent authority. Just let me know.
Anyway, as soon as everyone is ready, I will translate.
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34
Recent JW EXPEDITIONS TO MOUNT ARARAT
by Utopian Reformist indespite the apparent redundancy, i would like to introduce the subject from a different perspective.
around 1996 i came in contact with a jw pioneer named "francesco annunziata" from naples, italy.. francesco was involved with a man (inactive jw) named angelo palego, with whom he has made several expeditions to mt.
ararat searching the famous ahora gorge for remnants of the ark.. the majority of the more technical and geological/scientific information is in italian, but there is enough information posted in english to merit attention.. i posted this subject in an effort to move away from discussing the flood, size of the flood and/or location of the flood.
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Utopian Reformist
MADApostate:
Thx for posting the link to the original thread. I am sorry I missed that one. Anyway, like I said earlier, I had been e-mailing and talking to these guys a few years back and sending them the Washington Post on a weekly basis. I forgot why they needed it.
But, Angelo claims he has had experts verify his pictures and when he offered proof to several critics, a few accepted the evidence and backed off, while others refused to examine it. So he gave up the battle. I will call them on the weekend and take this to the personal level.
Thx to everyone for participating. I appreciate your thoughts and work.